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35, 5, and 2

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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  Joel H on Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:10 pm

Great job Oz man on the PR....those were some tough conditions out there. I am interested in hearing what the 2 means as well.

By the way, thanks for all the advice and tips, they helped a lot. Will you be joining your team next year, if not, I believe we may have a spot open for you on our team.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  Kenny B. on Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:55 pm

Congrats on the new PR! Great job.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:22 pm

Joel H wrote:Great job Oz man on the PR....those were some tough conditions out there. I am interested in hearing what the 2 means as well.

By the way, thanks for all the advice and tips, they helped a lot. Will you be joining your team next year, if not, I believe we may have a spot open for you on our team.

Joel, thanks. Sorry I could not have talked with you before the race and was glad all worked out. If our team doesn't run, next year, I will consider joining yours before registering for another race. The date of the next one has a big influence.

Kenny B. wrote:Congrats on the new PR! Great job.

Much obliged, Kenny.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:45 pm

It appears I have a week's worth of running to update.

Sunday, April 1, 8:13 a.m. The purpose of this run was to run in the daylight and to assess my body after the 5K PR from the day before. So, I ran 6.7 miles, which would give me enough of an idea.


  1. 12:33, 133 bpm
  2. 12:23, 134 bpm
  3. 12:31, 134 bpm
  4. 12:28, 138 bpm
  5. 12:54, 135 bpm
  6. 12:18, 140 bpm
  7. 11:57 (pace), 143 bpm

1:23:29, 6.7 miles, 136 avg bpm, 149 max. I was fine with the time and didn't feel any ill effects from the prior day's 5K. Good news.

Next report is for Monday, April 2.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:22 pm

Monday morning 8.16 miles. 3rd day in a row to run. Looking at the times that I'm about to type reminds me of how much I don't like running 14 minute miles. But the idea for the run was to run it in the low 120's heart rate and not to check the time. Good thing.

8.16 miles, 1:54:42, 14:03 pace, 123 avg bpm, 138 max bpm.


  1. 13:43, 123 bpm
  2. 13:41, 125 bpm
  3. 14:01, 125 bpm
  4. 14:10, 125 bpm
  5. 14:18, 122 bpm
  6. 14:07, 122 bpm
  7. 14:05, 122 bpm
  8. 14:16, 123 bpm
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:01 pm

Tuesday, April 3. This would be the 4th day in a row of running, which I haven't done intentionally in quite some time, meaning, I'd have to look back to see when that happened, but I don't want to do that.

So, the idea of this one was to run 6 or 8 miles. Well, I decided to do 6.6, but only managed 3.55. My energy had run out. I had to walk 3 miles back home. I wasn't disappointed, just ran the tank dry.

3.55 miles, 47:29, 13:22 pace, 125 bpm, 141 max bpm


  1. 13:03, 125 bpm
  2. 13:07, 127 bpm
  3. 13:34, 125 bpm
  4. 13:59 (pace), 121 bpm

So, I had 36 hours to recharge a bit before the Wednesday evening running clinic known as Power In Motion.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  KathyK on Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:24 am

Hope your batteries are recharging!
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  Joel H on Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:53 pm

14 minute miles...I have done those before, they SUCK because it feels like walkers could pass you. Nice job running 4 days in a row though, I haven't done that in a while.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:43 pm

KathyK wrote:Hope your batteries are recharging!

Thanks, K2, alas they did not get fully charged.

Joel H wrote:14 minute miles...I have done those before, they SUCK because it feels like walkers could pass you. Nice job running 4 days in a row though, I haven't done that in a while.

amen.

***

Okay, now trying to catch up a bit more.

April 4, last Wednesday. PIM workout was 1/2 mile warm up, then 7 400's/7 slow 400's, 1/2 mile cool down. As I remember, I wasn't as amped as I was the preceding Wednesday's 200's workout because I didn't have a race to prepare for.

Just giving the fast 400's at mile pace:


  1. 8:46, 142 bpm
  2. 8:57, 162 bpm
  3. 9:41, 162 bpm
  4. 10:08, 162 bpm
  5. 10:22, 162 bpm
  6. 10:02, 166 bpm

I was one tuckered out puppy.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:52 pm

So, this was Monday, April 9. Rested from 3 days of not running, but usually it takes a little while to get limbered up after a 3 day weekend. Ditto again.

8.08 mile run, 1:44:05, 12:52 pace, 126 avg bpm, 141 max bpm. 1st half was faster than the 2nd half. Eh, couldn't help it.


  1. 12:39, 124 bpm
  2. 12:47, 126 bpm
  3. 12:41, 125 bpm
  4. 12:57, 128 bpm
  5. 12:51, 126 bpm
  6. 12:58, 128 bpm
  7. 12:55, 125 bpm
  8. 13:06, 125 bpm


  1. April 2: 8.16 miles, 1:54:42, 14:03 pace, 123 avg bpm, 138 max bpm, temp 71
  2. April 3: 3.55 miles, 47:29, 13:22 pace, 125 bpm, 141 max bpm, temp 73
  3. April 9: 8.08 mile run, 1:44:05, 12:52 pace, 126 avg bpm, 141 max bpm, temp 64

Amazing what 10 degree temperature difference does.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:07 pm

Wednesday, April 11. Had to run today for a contest at work. Temperature was 62 degrees with 100% humidity, although it felt cooler and nice. Not quite frisky nice, but nice.

Decided to do a 9 mile run today. I haven't done a 9 mile run in a while, but wasn't anxious at all.

8.82 miles, 1:47:47, 12:12 avg pace, 135 avg bpm, 146 max bpm, 1st half pace 12:12, 2nd half pace 12:12


  1. 12:20, 133 bpm
  2. 11:55, 131 bpm
  3. 11:59, 132 bpm
  4. 12:29, 134 bpm
  5. 11:59, 138 bpm
  6. 12:05, 138 bpm
  7. 12:38, 134 bpm
  8. 12:23, 135 bpm
  9. 12:03 (pace), 138 bpm

GOSH, I'm going to miss those 63 degree mornings over the next 5 months.

Thanks for stopping by. bedtime for bonzo
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:32 pm

I had a rare, free Saturday, so I went ahead and ran 12 miles for a few reasons.


  1. I wanted to see what no carbo-loading would do. For a 12 mile run, I would've fixed a half cup (dry) of rice to have been eaten on Thursday. This would've given me enough energy to feel like I could run without problems and faster. Further, it would've ensured I wouldn't have any cramps. Lastly, it would provide me with information on how my body converts fat to energy, in the absence of carbs. Lots of the the things I still do, relate to when I weighed 40 pounds more than I do now.
  2. A 12 mile run would have caused me to bring a few Animal Crackers to eat around mile 10, to keep my mental clarity. I brought none.
  3. I haven't run 12 miles in a while.
  4. And I wanted to see if I chafe less, now that I've lost 10 more pounds.

Answers:


  1. My legs felt heavy through the run. I didn't cramp, though, which was WONDERFUL news. There were a couple of points during the run where I received some mental clarity, but I didn't feel crisp.
  2. I had no loss of clarity. A good thing
  3. I can still run 12 miles.
  4. No chafing, another benefit of losing weight.

So, let's get to the stats. 73 degrees with a dew point of 70 degrees. Ran from my apartment, through Memorial Park to Waugh Drive and back. Done it many times, so it's not new turf.

12 miles, 2:37:20 for a 13:07 pace, avg heart rate 123 bpm, 144 max HR in mile 12. 1st half pace 13:15, 2nd half pace 12:59.


  1. 13:09, 114 bpm
  2. 13:04, 120 bpm
  3. 13:10, 119 bpm
  4. 13:31, 120 bpm
  5. 13:13, 118 bpm
  6. 13:24, 121 bpm
  7. 13:26, 118 bpm
  8. 12:54, 125 bpm
  9. 12:47, 128 bpm
  10. 12:51, 130 bpm
  11. 12:55, 132 bpm
  12. 12:51, 135 bpm

Considering no carbo-loading, I was fine with the time. Makes me want to continue testing that through the summer up to about 16 mile long run, as I train for my first marathon of the season on October 6 in Odessa.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:28 pm

Interesting running, this morning. And I'm going to request some feedback from the audience at the end of the report.

I was going to go to CrossFit, after running this morning, so that factored in to how far I was running. Plus, there was a 60% chance of rain, so I had to factor that, too. It was dry, when I left.

4 miles was the selected distance and didn't think I'd get rained on during the run (wrong). It was an out 'n back kind of route. I went out fine and it seemed I was going pretty fast for the heart rate, so I checked the strap and it was fine. At about 2.3 miles, I saw lightning and, by habit, counted the seconds until the thunder. 7 seconds. It's one mile away and I have 1.7 miles to go. Hmmm, speed up, silly. At 2.8 miles, I started getting pelted by big drops that sounded like rain hitting a tin roof on my bald noggin. Oh, well. By the time I got home, I was soaked to the bone, my shoes were heavy, but clean. Dried off and got ready for CrossFit.

73 degrees, and 100% humidity. 4.03 miles, 47:21, 11:45 pace, 133 avg bpm, 149 max at mile 4. First half at 11:58 and the second half at 11:32 (rain motivated).


  1. 11:53, 126 bpm
  2. 12:03, 130 bpm
  3. 11:26, 138 bpm
  4. 11:38, 140 bpm

So, I drove off to CrossFit for the 5 a.m. class. I always like to check online to see what the tasks are, but it wasn't posted. After warming up, the first thing was a 1 mile run for time. What?!? "I've already run 4 miles this morning.", I said. "Really?", said the owner. Yup.

Lined up for the run, after not being excluded, and began the mile. What kind of time is THIS going to produce, were my thoughts. I was in last, of course, but i was using the people in front of me as rabbits. I didn't have my watch on, so I don't know the exact time, but I finished the mile (with a pouring rain for the final 200 meters) in 9:25 at probably 160-170 bpm, I figure.

I was pleased because 9:25 is my 5K pace time and I'd already done 4 miles.

So here's my question for y'all. Am I to read anything into comparing my times of a 11:45 pace 4 mile run, then 1 hour later running a mile in 9:25? Am I under-utilizing my ability? Thanks for your time.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  Joel H on Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:38 pm

Looks like your 2nd 1/2 of your long run you bumped up the speed and your HR went with it...was that intentional?

As for your question about the 4 miles and then 1 mile time trial, you are not under-utilizing anything. Those runs served different purposes. Don't read much into it except that you may have been dogging it on your 5k or your 5k was in much warmer conditions, I believe the latter was the case here. If it was warmer then you really can't compare the two except to say you may have a much faster 5k in you if the conditions were better.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:04 pm

Joel H wrote:Looks like your 2nd 1/2 of your long run you bumped up the speed and your HR went with it...was that intentional?

As for your question about the 4 miles and then 1 mile time trial, you are not under-utilizing anything. Those runs served different purposes. Don't read much into it except that you may have been dogging it on your 5k or your 5k was in much warmer conditions, I believe the latter was the case here. If it was warmer then you really can't compare the two except to say you may have a much faster 5k in you if the conditions were better.

Thanks, Joel. Makes sense. As far as the 2nd half faster than the 1st, it's always my intention to run the 2nd half faster than the first. That was one of the changes I made for the last training cycle because I wanted my body to get used to going faster, rather than slowing down, on the coming back half of the long run. Most of the time, I can do that.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  Mark B on Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:37 am

ounce wrote:So here's my question for y'all. Am I to read anything into comparing my times of a 11:45 pace 4 mile run, then 1 hour later running a mile in 9:25? Am I under-utilizing my ability?

Nope. What we're talking about here are apples and oranges. You were using a different type of muscle and -- most importantly -- a different type of metabolism when you did that last mile at CrossFit. Can you run faster than your slow, low HR pace? Absolutely yes. But the lower HR training is developing the mitochondria and capillaries that fuel your slow-twitch muscles. When done consistently, that will allow your overall speed to build at a lower effort level - building efficiency, speed and endurance from the bottom up. (I routinely have to tell myself, "Of course I can run faster than this. But it's not the point of this type of training.")

And on the flip side, it's fair to ask, "Well, can't I just keep hammering away and run all my miles faster like I did at CrossFit?" The answer is: Well, you probably could... but it'd also increase the chance of injury, burn sugar instead of fat and fail to build the mitochondria that comes from the lower intensity work.

(That doesn't mean all intensity is bad. It just means that it's best done in small doses.)
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:34 pm

Yup, Mark, you're right. I've just never had to deal with my form of speed, at all. So, I just need to package it in the proper light and the proper emphasis.

10 days since my last post and lots to post, but not tonight. Last night, I got the kindest compliment about my running that I've ever had. I was at PIM and we were running a warm up distance. She was following me, along with another girl in the group and she said, "He makes running look so effortless." And then, she told me face to face. That was cool.

More postings soon.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  John Kilpatrick on Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:43 pm

Haha - that was a cool compliment. I once had something like that said to me, but it was something like "I can tell that you are not a natural runner, but you do OK". I didn't know if that was a compliment or not, but whatever!!! Your HR numbers for your long run (good job by the way Smile ) look about where I would guess might be in the zone Mark was speaking about - where you are supposed to get the most bang for your buck so to speak endurance-wise. And I agree that sometimes running fast just feels good and it does offer some benefits. And there is also about as much different to me between a fast mile and a fast 5K as there is between a half and a full marathon. That is to say, they are wayyyy different. Good job and keep it up - your doing great!

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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  Mark B on Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:55 pm

ounce wrote:Yup, Mark, you're right. I've just never had to deal with my form of speed, at all. So, I just need to package it in the proper light and the proper emphasis.

10 days since my last post and lots to post, but not tonight. Last night, I got the kindest compliment about my running that I've ever had. I was at PIM and we were running a warm up distance. She was following me, along with another girl in the group and she said, "He makes running look so effortless." And then, she told me face to face. That was cool.

More postings soon.

Woot! A compliment doesn't get much better than that. cheers
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:34 pm

Never thought running could look effortless at 185 pounds or so.

-30-

Well, time to get caught up on a few runs.

Temperatures & 1st & 2nd half splits escapes me for some of the runs, so I'll just see how I can recall.

Wednesday, April 18. For the weight competition at work, I have resorted to running 8 or so miles on the morning that I get weighed in order to take advantage of the upcoming warm mornings and the subsequent sweat release, thereby pounds.

8.11 miles, 1:44:05, 12:50 pace, 121 avg HR, 148 Max hr


  1. 12:15, 131 bpm
  2. 12:23, 122 bpm
  3. 12:42, 121 bpm
  4. 12:52, 123 bpm
  5. 12:50, 120 bpm
  6. 13:00, 120 bpm
  7. 13:16, 118 bpm
  8. 13:20, 118 bpm

I see in the second half where my HR went insignificantly down and my splits went up in 10 second increments.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:19 pm

Wednesday evening, April 18, in lieu of the PIM workout, I did the 45th annual LP Run, the oldest race in Houston. It's run over at the Rice University track and consists of how many laps of the track can you do in 33 minutes and a third minutes (LP= albums played at 33 & 1/3 rpm)

I ended up doing 13 and a half laps or 3.41 miles at a 9:47 pace. Considering what I ran that morning, I was satisfied. Plus, I got this cool tie-dye race t-shirt.

I can't do the evening speed workouts with the benefit of fresh legs, due to running on Wednesday mornings. But May 2nd will be the last PIM workout, and just a 3 mile Indian Line for it because the goal race will be on May 5, in the form of a 5K in which I will not be running.

Shortly, I'll be starting training for my first of 5 marathons between October and February, the Crossroads Marathon in Odessa, Texas on Saturday October 6. It's a very small marathon (58 finishers in 2011), but it's the only one in Texas that I can schedule to run during the month of October. I believe I'm in good shape, although I haven't lost the amount of weight by May 1 that I wanted to lose. But, I think I can probably lose another 10-15 pounds by the end of July.

Re-calibrating my diet to be less dependent on carbs has contributed to recent weight loss and I'm now tinkering with the idea of carbo loading for long runs at 50% less than in prior years. This will allow me to manage my intake, while being more effiicient with what I do eat, thereby shaving a couple of pounds during training. When I do carbo load, my muscles will suck up all that glycogen in short order and with glee.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:30 pm

Thursday the 19th was a well earned recovery & rest day. Friday was another non-running day, but I did do CrossFit that morning. Rested the weekend, too. 24 miles in a non-training week ain't bad to me.

Monday, April 23. 67 degrees with a 38 degree dewpoint. The cold front came through and it was a great, probably last, dry day before the summer. I was curious how 4 days off, coupled with great morning weather would turn out in a 6.6 mile run.

6.68 miles, in a time of 1:20:17, a 12:00 minute pace, avg HR of 132 with a max of 162 in the first mile. I think the HR strap was off in the first mile, but accurate afterwards.


  1. 12:01, 143 bpm
  2. 11:48, 128 bpm
  3. 11:57, 128 bpm
  4. 11:27, 134 bpm
  5. 12:16, 131 bpm
  6. 12:13, 130 bpm
  7. 12:30 (pace), 128 bpm

I'd like to see a similar time run in July.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:52 pm

Tuesday, April 24 was a CrossFit day. I've decided that I'm going to do what I can to do CrossFit for 3 days a week until the end of May, when I believe the time on miles will be greater than being able to do both running and CrossFit in the same day.

Wednesday, April 25. This was an almost 9 mile run. It was 67 degrees with a 57 degree dewpoint. Cool air was still around, even though the humidity was steadily coming back. 8.81 miles, 1:44:50, 11:53 pace, same pace in the first and second half, avg HR of 142 and max HR of 160 in the last mile.


  1. 11:50, 130 bpm
  2. 11:25, 139 bpm
  3. 11:52, 139 bpm
  4. 12:08, 142 bpm
  5. 12:14, 141 bpm
  6. 12:08, 144 bpm
  7. 11:59, 147 bpm
  8. 11:52, 148 bpm
  9. 11:28 pace, 153 bpm

I had to work to get the 2nd half to be 11:53 pace, like the first half.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:04 pm

Wednesday evening was PIM night where the workout was to be 3 x 1,200's, with a 400 cooldown in between,on the track. I wasn't especially looking forward to this, as a result of running 9 miles just that morning. So, I decided I would pace this girl that's a little slower than me, but hopefully it would be somewhat restful for me. Well, that didn't turn out to be true.

The coaches started us out with a 1.25 mile warmup. The first 1,200 was done at a 9:28 pace, 161 bpm with a max of 176 bpm. The 2nd was at 10:26 pace, 166 bpm and a max of 177 bpm. And the final 1,200 was at 10:37 pace, 171 bpm and a max of 178.

I was a tuckered out puppy. But it's good to get the heart rate up into the 85% range.
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Re: 35, 5, and 2

Post  ounce on Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:54 pm

As I had a free weekend, I decided to do CrossFit on Thursday and Friday without running. Saturday would be my day to run. Even though I already had 20 miles for the week, I knew I would run 12 miles for sure, regardless of the weather because it's difficult for me not to have a longer distance run on a Saturday or Sunday.

I was looking forward to the run because I was going to run some of it in the daylight, not to carbo load in the days before it, test out Animal Crackers as a sugar fuel for my brain (I had been using Fig Newtons), and to see what kind of time and HR I get when the temps are in the 70's.

So, let me break it down. 14 miles, 2:57:57, 12:42 pace, 141 avg HR, 168 max HR, 1st half 12:50 pace, 2nd half 12:34 pace. Temp was 72 degrees with a 67 degree dewpoint. I started at 5 a.m. The first half goal was trying to keep the HR in the 130 (65%) range. The 2nd half goal was to see if I could get a negative split. I weighed 186 before the run and 181 after the run.

I had 3 hours to do the run because I had an appointment at 9:30 to give some platelets and that would give me enough time to eat, shower, stop sweating, and drive to the Blood Center. So, I thought I could run 13 miles, instead of 12. When I got to the point in the run back home, I made a turn that would commit me to running 14 miles, instead of 13. In past training cycles, it was common for me to make the same turn, so I made a wrong turn based on how I ran in the past.


  1. 12:36, 123 bpm
  2. 12:37, 132 bpm
  3. 12:43, 132 bpm
  4. 12:54, 134 bpm
  5. 13:09, 135 bpm
  6. 12:55, 133 bpm
  7. 12:56, 132 bpm
  8. 12:20, 139 bpm
  9. 12:02, 148 bpm
  10. 12:37, 148 bpm
  11. 12:40, 150 bpm
  12. 13:04, 153 bpm
  13. 12:53, 156 bpm
  14. 12:26, 161 bpm

I was startled that my heart rate had increased so much in the last 4 miles. It reminded me of how my heart rate went up during Houston, back in January. I wonder if there's any correlation between a step up in HR and getting to 12 miles. I was also startled that at a HR of 145, it didn't FEEL like 145. It felt very comfortable, as comfortable as if I was running at 130.

Afterwards, I was soaking wet, although I wasn't squishy in my shoes. I had no pain related to a lack of carbo loading. I did not feel like or run like I was under carbed. Animal Crackers did the job for my brain, although I don't particularly like how it clumps in my mouth, after chewing.

Some questions answered, some questions with new questions, but a really good run. It was enjoyable, but I dread training for a Fall marathon in Houston, due to the heat. This will be the 4th time I'll be doing this. After the first time in 2005, I swore I'd never train for a Fall marathon again. Oh, well.

Thanks for stopping by.
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Explaining To Spouse
Explaining To Spouse

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