Road to Nowhere

ounce wrote:Had a similar experience as heavy legs. I'm not feeling it now. The good thing is that if I abandon low-carbing, there won't be any withdrawal pains.

Separately, I saw you use Nuun. What do you think about it? How long does it take to dissolve? Would you (or have you) ever not dissolve it, before drinking? Maybe even swallow it whole or in pieces?

It takes a couple of minutes to dissolve. I'd always dissolve it. It'd be like chewing on an Alka Seltzer.

I don't carry water with me, when I run, because I plan the route around available water fountains. And since I'll be running more in the daylight this training cycle, I figure I might need some electrolytes. Nuun could be better than placing Gatorade on the route.

I wondered if I swallowed it dry or with a bit of water if I'd be waiting for all the bubbles to escape (2 minutes worth of burping?). Or carry with me a Dixie cup.

Hmmm. Might have to do the Nuun, just before starting out on the run. Things to ponder.

ounce wrote:I don't carry water with me, when I run, because I plan the route around available water fountains. And since I'll be running more in the daylight this training cycle, I figure I might need some electrolytes. Nuun could be better than placing Gatorade on the route.

I wondered if I swallowed it dry or with a bit of water if I'd be waiting for all the bubbles to escape (2 minutes worth of burping?). Or carry with me a Dixie cup.

Hmmm. Might have to do the Nuun, just before starting out on the run. Things to ponder.

Ounce, you are making this far too difficult!

Get one of these:



One nuun tablet per 22-ounce bottle. Carry it with you, switch hands every mile, and you get a little arm toning as you stay hydrated. Losing pounds of fluid every run can't be good for you anyway. And it frees you somewhat from the tyranny of water fountain placement.

It even comes with a little pocket where you can put extra nuun tables for when you refill the bottle. That pocket can also hold Endurolytes or S-Caps, or even a few gels. It works very well.

They cost about 20 bucks or so at Amazon.com. Probably a bit more at your friendly local running store.

Failing that, drinking nuun before and after the run wouldn't hurt, either.

Extra-Low HR Run: 60 minutes (4.22 miles)

Weather: Overcast, cool, moist. 54 degrees, 93% humidity. Gear: Free 3.0 v4s, shorts, T, windbreaker. Fuel: Asti Spumante and powdered sugar mini doughnuts at about midnight, half cup of coffee this morning. Carried water.

So, as you can see by my fueling strategy, this was an unusual run. I decided to surprise Alita (who had a hellish week at work) with a bottle of Asti and a pack of mini powdered sugar doughnuts after work last night. That got us to bed well after midnight, which meant adjusting my plans for this morning.

I had intended to get up at 5 and go out for maybe a couple of hours. Instead, I decided to grab an extra hour of sleep and run for only an hour or so. I was prepared to listen to my body and adjust on the fly.

That turned out to be a good strategy, with interesting consequences.

I noticed I was moving slowly in my walking warm up but with a low HR. When I shifted to running, my legs weren't enthused. But I told myself that, if I ever plan to run ultras, I'd better practice running when the legs don't want to go. So I went, trying to find an intensity that felt right.

That intensity turned out to be far below my normal MAF target heart rate of 138. In fact, I spent most of the run in the mid 120s. I was running around 13-minute miles, but I didn't care. In fact, it became a game: keeping relaxed, running easy and keeping my HR under 130.

The wild thing was, it didn't feel like I was plodding - it felt like I was floating. It got to the point to where I was doing some math in my head, thinking, "Hm, okay... thirteen minute miles. What's 13 times 100, divided by 60? Hm..."

The lack of the stress on my system was evident when I hit the ravine on my route -- I was able to keep running without spiking my heart rate -- and when I got to 55 minutes and began my cool-down walk, my heart rate fell to below 100 in about 40 seconds -- it usually takes five minutes -- and within another minute, it was down to 90. Hm.

I can't imagine doing these sorts of runs all the time (though they probably are pure slow-twitch sessions), but it sure was an interesting experiment.

Average HR for the entire run: 119(!)

Barefoot run: 1 mile

Weather: Overcast, cool. 55.

Three laps around the block, barefoot, with Alec and Alita. It was Alita's first attempt at barefoot running, and she did great. They both kept wanting to run faster - even racing a little - which was pretty fun to see.

No Garmin, so no data!

How ironic that somebody in the NW is teaching someone about water bottles to someone in the South! Too funny.

I love seeing your posts lately about running because I never know what I am going to read about: barefoot running, REALLY LOW HR running, treadmill runs, walks during lunch, etc. I love the variety man and I bet you are too.

Joel H wrote:How ironic that somebody in the NW is teaching someone about water bottles to someone in the South! Too funny.

I love seeing your posts lately about running because I never know what I am going to read about: barefoot running, REALLY LOW HR running, treadmill runs, walks during lunch, etc. I love the variety man and I bet you are too.

It has been fun mixing it up a bit this year, since I don't have to hew to a specific training plan. It does drive the OCD part of me just a little bit crazy sometimes... but it's going to just have to deal with it.

This may sound a little nuts, but part of my philosophy is influenced by the whole "muscle confusion" philosophy in P90X. By mixing it up, I'm stimulating different systems and hopefully building in a more holistic way than simply pointing my feet in one direction and just going.

As part of that (sort of), I experimented with my Luna sandals this weekend when we went to visit a buddy who was camping up in the Columbia River Gorge. I found out that I need to crank those laces down if I plan to wear them on rough terrain. I was climbing up and down rocks, and my foot kept sliding on the surface of the sandal. They tell me that goes away as they break in, and it got better when I cinched the laces down. They dug a groove into the side of my arch, but they did stay put - and seem to be starting to conform better to my feet.

It's been a little hectic this week, but I hope to get out for a walk at lunch today and tomorrow and squeeze in some sort or run on Thursday before I have to go run an errand. I need a run because that OCD part of me I mentioned earlier is getting a little twitchy.

Walk: 3.82 miles (67 minutes)

Weather: Sunny with puffy clouds, 60 degrees.

The weather was so nice at lunchtime today (and I was so full of nervous energy) that I blew past my normal turnaround point and kept going until I ran out of riverside bike bath. Good thing, because I'd be halfway to Mt. Hood by now, it was so nice outside.

Even so, I was surprised to see just how far I'd gone. Not bad for lunch!

Edit to add a couple of photos from the walk.



This was close to where I finally turned around. There's great views of the Columbia River and aircraft outbound from Portland International Airport - including a group of F-15s with the Oregon Air National Guard.



This is nearly at the end of the path: a metal sculpture named "Wendy the Welder" dedicated to all the women who worked in the Kaiser Shipyard (which was just beyond the end of the path), building Liberty Ships and baby flattops in World War II.

Can you see why it was hard to turn around?

P90x RULES!!!! I like your idea of muscle confusion...I added in speed work and Ab Ripper X to my weekly routine and I am starting to see some nice gains. Also running with a local running group, I think, is helping too...especially on the track. I don't like to lose.

Really nice long walk there. Interesting about the sandals but I guess all types of shoes need a break in period, no matter how little material is there.

Joel H wrote:P90x RULES!!!! I like your idea of muscle confusion...I added in speed work and Ab Ripper X to my weekly routine and I am starting to see some nice gains. Also running with a local running group, I think, is helping too...especially on the track. I don't like to lose.

Really nice long walk there. Interesting about the sandals but I guess all types of shoes need a break in period, no matter how little material is there.

Well, let's not get irrational, Joel. I think mixing it up is probably good for me, but I'm not planning on doing any prison push-ups anytime soon.

As for the sandals, it's partly about the leather and rubber sole bending to conform more to the shape your foot, and for the smooth sheen of the leather footbed to get less slippery. I think the leather around the toe strap also gives a bit, giving you a little shape in the forefoot, as well. At least, that's what photos of well-worn Lunas look like.



These are the Equus,which has a slightly thinner and more flexible Vibram sole than my Catamounts (2mm vs 4 mm), but I think/hope mine will eventually break in like that, too.

This is what I use to carry water. It does definitely give your arm a workout.

Mark B wrote:

ounce wrote:I don't carry water with me, when I run, because I plan the route around available water fountains. And since I'll be running more in the daylight this training cycle, I figure I might need some electrolytes. Nuun could be better than placing Gatorade on the route.

I wondered if I swallowed it dry or with a bit of water if I'd be waiting for all the bubbles to escape (2 minutes worth of burping?). Or carry with me a Dixie cup.

Hmmm. Might have to do the Nuun, just before starting out on the run. Things to ponder.

Ounce, you are making this far too difficult!

Get one of these:



One nuun tablet per 22-ounce bottle. Carry it with you, switch hands every mile, and you get a little arm toning as you stay hydrated. Losing pounds of fluid every run can't be good for you anyway. And it frees you somewhat from the tyranny of water fountain placement.

It even comes with a little pocket where you can put extra nuun tables for when you refill the bottle. That pocket can also hold Endurolytes or S-Caps, or even a few gels. It works very well.

They cost about 20 bucks or so at Amazon.com. Probably a bit more at your friendly local running store.

Failing that, drinking nuun before and after the run wouldn't hurt, either.

I use one of those bottles as well as a Fuel Belt one that has a similar carrier. It is certainly an arm workout and often times, my arm will actually hurt when I'm done!

Can we turn this into a water-carrier debate? Because I hate carrying a bottle...

Ultra-style vest (I've seen many a trail runner wearing a Nathan Sports one) seems to be the most logical. Plus you can find them for relatively cheap.

kory.wheatley@gmail.com wrote:This is what I use to carry water. It does definitely give your arm a workout.

I've noticed that, too, Kory. I make a point to switch off every mile so I don't end up all lopsided.

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:I use one of those bottles as well as a Fuel Belt one that has a similar carrier. It is certainly an arm workout and often times, my arm will actually hurt when I'm done!

Yeah, but the arm definition is great! The weirdest part for me is dealing with the back of my hand getting sweaty from the strap.

Mike MacLellan wrote:Can we turn this into a water-carrier debate? Because I hate carrying a bottle...

Ultra-style vest (I've seen many a trail runner wearing a Nathan Sports one) seems to be the most logical. Plus you can find them for relatively cheap.

Debate away! I have two different Camelbaks, as well as a water belt and this handheld. I think the handheld is a good substitute for the water belt, but not for the Camelbak - which I use when I'm going off on a trail and won't be able to refill. I've heard some people complain that packs get hot and sweaty. I haven't had that problem myself, but I don't live in some really hot and humid place, either.

For me, it's whatever works best. Though you'd never catch me wearing one of those Amphibod belts. I'd feel like Batman wearing it.

Barefoot Run: 2.1 miles

Weather: Overcast, mild, a little muggy. 56 degrees. Gear: Bare feet, shorts, T.

I'm a little time-crunched this week, so I'm cramming activity in whenever I can. This morning, it was right after I got Alec off to school. I headed outside and stated doing barefoot laps around the neighborhood. I didn't have time for a long run, so my goal was to simply keep reminding my feet what it feels like to run without shoes.

I could tell I'm rushed - my HR was higher when I started, and it tended to pop up higher than usual during the run. No biggie. The run felt good and my feet don't feel abraded, so that's a good thing.

No warm up or cool down; just a latrine squat before and after.

I have a 100 oz Camelbak and I love it. I live in Houston which could be considered the hottest/most humid place on earth and I don't feel it is hot and sweaty because within about 2 minutes I am already sweating from the heat/humidity so I can't tell the difference...

Honestly though, it is the only way I can get through long runs that start @ 4am in the morning and there isn't another human awake. It has gotten me through 20 milers before but it has to be cool for that to happen. I can easily get through a 12-14 miler without a problem even in the worst conditions.

I'm not a bottle holding person for how Michele explained. I have a fuel belt, which I don't wear unless I'm doing a run not along a water fountain. Easier to spread 28 ounces of weight on my waist than to carry 21 in a hand.

And I just want to keep my hands free.

Joel H wrote:I have a 100 oz Camelbak and I love it. I live in Houston which could be considered the hottest/most humid place on earth and I don't feel it is hot and sweaty because within about 2 minutes I am already sweating from the heat/humidity so I can't tell the difference...

Honestly though, it is the only way I can get through long runs that start @ 4am in the morning and there isn't another human awake. It has gotten me through 20 milers before but it has to be cool for that to happen. I can easily get through a 12-14 miler without a problem even in the worst conditions.

Good point about the 2-minutes-to-soaked standard. I remember that well from my time living in Southeast Asia.

ounce wrote:I'm not a bottle holding person for how Michele explained. I have a fuel belt, which I don't wear unless I'm doing a run not along a water fountain. Easier to spread 28 ounces of weight on my waist than to carry 21 in a hand.

And I just want to keep my hands free.

No problem with hands-free. You could break up the nuun tablets into smaller pieces and put a chunk in each bottle (it doesn't have to be exact to help), or if you were extremely anal, you could dissolve the nuun tablet in a big measuring cup and divide it equally in each bottle. That *might* be a little extreme (though it sounds like something I might do).

(If you have a Camelbak, you could toss in 1 tablet for every 20 ounces or so of capacity. I've put 2 in my smaller Camelbak, and it worked out fine.

Simply taking Endurolytes or S-Caps would be another alternative, or a supplement.

I'm a smaller person and the Camelback that I tried was a constant reminder that I was wearing a Camelback - more for the fact that the straps seemed to interfere. Now I have the same trouble/issue with reflective vests, but at least they are light. I only carry water if I'm running 1.5-2 hrs and not near any water. For longer runs, I'll either plant water bottles or double back with loops or makes sure I know where various gas stations/supermarkets are with fountains. Like Joel, I've run my fair share of longer runs at 4 am to avoid extreme heat, but when in NY in the summer, I can actually still run starting as late at 6-6:30 am before the heat really kicks in (even finishing around 9 am). I have been know to run the 3 mile loop 5x in the place where we are in the summer as it gives you the perfect amount of hills and flats.

(Of course, with the warm weather this year and the lack of snow in western NY state, I expect it might be a bit more like training in Hotlanta this summer).

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:I'm a smaller person and the Camelback that I tried was a constant reminder that I was wearing a Camelback - more for the fact that the straps seemed to interfere. Now I have the same trouble/issue with reflective vests, but at least they are light. I only carry water if I'm running 1.5-2 hrs and not near any water. For longer runs, I'll either plant water bottles or double back with loops or makes sure I know where various gas stations/supermarkets are with fountains. Like Joel, I've run my fair share of longer runs at 4 am to avoid extreme heat, but when in NY in the summer, I can actually still run starting as late at 6-6:30 am before the heat really kicks in (even finishing around 9 am). I have been know to run the 3 mile loop 5x in the place where we are in the summer as it gives you the perfect amount of hills and flats.

(Of course, with the warm weather this year and the lack of snow in western NY state, I expect it might be a bit more like training in Hotlanta this summer).

Good tips!

I have to note (as Joel mentioned earlier) that it's pretty funny/ironic/weird that a discussion of hydration strategies is occurring in a blog where the current temperature (at 1:42 p.m.) is 66 and the dewpoint is 44...

Mark B wrote:

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:I'm a smaller person and the Camelback that I tried was a constant reminder that I was wearing a Camelback - more for the fact that the straps seemed to interfere. Now I have the same trouble/issue with reflective vests, but at least they are light. I only carry water if I'm running 1.5-2 hrs and not near any water. For longer runs, I'll either plant water bottles or double back with loops or makes sure I know where various gas stations/supermarkets are with fountains. Like Joel, I've run my fair share of longer runs at 4 am to avoid extreme heat, but when in NY in the summer, I can actually still run starting as late at 6-6:30 am before the heat really kicks in (even finishing around 9 am). I have been know to run the 3 mile loop 5x in the place where we are in the summer as it gives you the perfect amount of hills and flats.

(Of course, with the warm weather this year and the lack of snow in western NY state, I expect it might be a bit more like training in Hotlanta this summer).

Good tips!

I have to note (as Joel mentioned earlier) that it's pretty funny/ironic/weird that a discussion of hydration strategies is occurring in a blog where the current temperature (at 1:42 p.m.) is 66 and the dewpoint is 44...

Just don't rub it in, Mark. It is actually cool here right now - temp of 82, dewpoint is 56, humidity is only 36% . We are expecting a cold front to come through tomorrow/Friday (of course, when the moving truck will be here), and then the days before I leave are only supposed to be in the lo-mid 80s.

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:Just don't rub it in, Mark. It is actually cool here right now - temp of 82, dewpoint is 56, humidity is only 36% . We are expecting a cold front to come through tomorrow/Friday (of course, when the moving truck will be here), and then the days before I leave are only supposed to be in the lo-mid 80s.

Ooo. I have to admit, that sounds nice. I'd be very happy to get some nice warm weather one of these days. On the upside, we did just get our very first strawberries of the year out of our garden. Mmm...

Mark B wrote:

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:Just don't rub it in, Mark. It is actually cool here right now - temp of 82, dewpoint is 56, humidity is only 36% . We are expecting a cold front to come through tomorrow/Friday (of course, when the moving truck will be here), and then the days before I leave are only supposed to be in the lo-mid 80s.

Ooo. I have to admit, that sounds nice. I'd be very happy to get some nice warm weather one of these days. On the upside, we did just get our very first strawberries of the year out of our garden. Mmm...

But JUST one of these days. You're welcome to come run the marathon with me in Odessa. Southwest flies there. I'll need a rabbit.

ounce wrote:

Mark B wrote:

Michele "1L" Keane wrote:Just don't rub it in, Mark. It is actually cool here right now - temp of 82, dewpoint is 56, humidity is only 36% . We are expecting a cold front to come through tomorrow/Friday (of course, when the moving truck will be here), and then the days before I leave are only supposed to be in the lo-mid 80s.

Ooo. I have to admit, that sounds nice. I'd be very happy to get some nice warm weather one of these days. On the upside, we did just get our very first strawberries of the year out of our garden. Mmm...

But JUST one of these days. You're welcome to come run the marathon with me in Odessa. Southwest flies there. I'll need a rabbit.

I would LOVE to see Odessa. It has such a rich history and an amazingly diverse mash-up of cultures. And to see the Black Sea would be very exciting. Still, it's a lot of packs of peanuts from the West Coast to there, so that might now work out so well.

Wait.. you didn't mean that Odessa? Let me look farther down in my Google search.

Oh. There.

Well the Ector County Library does look nice, I suppose ...

Been to that Odessa (Texas that is), and I think I'll pass on the excitement. (Although I really still need a marathon in TX, but I jsut can't run so many like I used to do)