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Buck-O-Nine

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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  Dave-O on Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:33 pm

@Diego wrote:

Now that you are billing more hours, I think it's soon time to have your lactate threshold checked. Elites run marathons just below that threshold(88-92% VO2max) and as a result, only have a 3-6 minute difference between marathon and half marathon(x2) times. Maybe talk with MVW. He recently had his tested.

I think knowing exactly what your lactate levels are at different running paces(they can do that, too) is a worthwhile investment because you have been in such a PR rut. I think you will be able to train smarter, too.


Been giving this some thought, and have a question: Wouldn't getting tested now, when I'm not at a high level of fitness, result in skewed numbers? My actual LT has to be pretty poor right now coming up 8 weeks without a single tempo or long run.

So if I was tested early on in the cycle, would the data be beneficial? I know when MVW was recently tested he was reasonably fit and already well into his training.
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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  Dave-O on Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:36 pm

@Chris M wrote:

I found two different daily mile logs from last year's Pittsburgh Half Marathon. Both are almost identical and they paint an elevation profile that looks pretty reasonable. I believe the big hills in Pittsburgh are in the 2nd half on the marathon course.





http://www.dailymile.com/routes/538086-running-route-in-pittsburgh-pa

Nice. Thanks. That's what I thought the course profile looked like, which appears fast to me. I am going to reach out to my former teammate, now Nike runner, that ran it a few years ago.
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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  Diego on Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:02 pm

Hey Dave-O,

How far is Louisville (driving time)? 5 hours? I wanted but missed my chance to run PapaJohn's 10 miler when I lived in TN. That would be a fun race for you and some Fleet Feet buddies to race. It's Saturday March 31, 2012(if you don't race in DC that weekend).
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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:06 pm

Many comments on marathonguide.com indicate that the course is "challenging". I believe I know the pace team coordinator/leader, so I will ask him what he thinks. he is from Pittsburgh, but he has also paced Chicago many times.
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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  Matt W on Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:39 pm



Good luck in pursuing your 69 minute goal. Sometimes you just need to get hungry again to smash some barriers down. You've put in the work over the past few years. Now you are due for some good race day luck as you enter your prime running years.
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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  Diego on Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:09 pm

@Dave-O wrote:
@Diego wrote:

Now that you are billing more hours, I think it's soon time to have your lactate threshold checked. Elites run marathons just below that threshold(88-92% VO2max) and as a result, only have a 3-6 minute difference between marathon and half marathon(x2) times. Maybe talk with MVW. He recently had his tested.

I think knowing exactly what your lactate levels are at different running paces(they can do that, too) is a worthwhile investment because you have been in such a PR rut. I think you will be able to train smarter, too.


Been giving this some thought, and have a question: Wouldn't getting tested now, when I'm not at a high level of fitness, result in skewed numbers? My actual LT has to be pretty poor right now coming up 8 weeks without a single tempo or long run.

So if I was tested early on in the cycle, would the data be beneficial? I know when MVW was recently tested he was reasonably fit and already well into his training.

Wait until you have finished your 8 week base period and then have it tested. Use the lactate threshold data to complete your HM training. Most half marathon programs have 3 speedwork sessions per week along with strides on easy days. That way you won't work too hard and get stale.
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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  Schuey on Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:09 pm

Hey Dave congrats on hitting that 100 mile week level again. It has to feel good to being put the miles back in. Look forward to reading your weeks recap.
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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  Dave-O on Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:30 pm

@Diego wrote:
Wait until you have finished your 8 week base period and then have it tested. Use the lactate threshold data to complete your HM training. Most half marathon programs have 3 speedwork sessions per week along with strides on easy days. That way you won't work too hard and get stale.

Sounds like a plan.

@Schuey wrote:Hey Dave congrats on hitting that 100 mile week level again. It has to feel good to being put the miles back in. Look forward to reading your weeks recap.

It actually did feel good, and things got easier as the week went on. Running is so strange: I felt fresher as I piled on the miles, whereas I felt achey and dead-legged during the 40 mile weeks last month.
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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  Dave-O on Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:16 pm

Training Week 1: December 5 – 11

Monday: 5 miles – 37:04, 7:25 pace. 8 miles – 57:55, 7:14 pace. Noticeably absent from the heading – the name of my goal race. While I’m strongly leaning towards the Pittsburgh Half, I want to see the new course profile before signing up. In the meantime, away we go with the training cycle. On my run home from work along the lakefront, I was greeted with a stiff, cold wind off the Lake. Welcome back!

Tuesday: 5 miles – 36:55, 7:23 pace. 10 miles – 1:02:13, 6:13 pace. During my 8-week offseason, I invented a new treadmill run where, after a 3 mile warm-up, I do a 4:00 on/2:00 off fartlek run, starting at 9.1 mph for the off and 10.1 mph for the on. I then increase by .1 mph each 6-minute cycle. By the 6th or 7th time through, my “off” pace is in the low-6’s, so the mile splits and average pace starts dropping rapidly. It’s essentially a moderate aerobic run with lots of pace changes, but on the ‘mill, it really helps pass the time.

Wednesday: 12 miles – 1:25:20, 7:07 pace. 4 miles – 31:04, 7:46 pace. One key to continued improvement is adding new stimuli, no matter how slight. During the 8-week base building phase, I’ve committed to not only running my midweek long run in the morning, but driving out to Waterfall Glen to do so. Yes, it makes for an early morning and a later start to the workday, but I see at least three significant benefits to the plan: (1) hills, (2) softer surface, and (3) not having to run in the dark. To make sure I stay disciplined to this plan, I asked for a new pair of shoes devoted solely to these midweek long runs.



This morning I was out of bed at 5:45 and at the trail head – which technically wasn’t even open yet – by 6:30. With the sun barely up and a frost on the crushed limestone, it was definitely a peaceful setting. My pace wasn’t anything impressive, though I don’t expect it to be as I get acquainted with early morning trail running. Because of the traffic back into the loop I wasn’t at my desk until a tad after 9:30, but it was a great start to the day. As long as I can afford to show up late one day per week, I think I can stick with this routine.

Thursday: 8 miles – 58:17, 7:17 pace. 5 miles – 37:31, 7:30 pace. My firm’s holiday dinner necessitated flopping the 5 and 8 milers tonight. Even still, a few spouses commented, “wait, you ran twice today? Why?” I went with the simple response that it justifies consumption of more food and drink.

Friday: 5 miles – 37:16, 7:27 pace. 8 miles – untimed. My discipline was tested for the first time tonight. My friend’s wife works for Miller Coors, and after work, a group of friends, including Britt, met at the Miller bar in the building which serves free beer! Not me. I met up with the group at Lincoln Park Zoo for the Zoo Lights exhibit, but only after 8 miles only the lakefront.

Saturday: 10 miles – 1:05:54, 6:35 pace. 6 miles – 45:12, 7:32 pace. Back to the hills! If I’m going to perform well in St. Louis in February, I need as much hill work as possible, so with Britt at a volleyball tournament, I drove back out to Waterfall Glen. I didn’t set out with any pace goals in mind, but as I got rolling, I continued to drop the pace. The result was an unexpected albeit welcome progression run: 7:06, 7:02, 6:43, 6:35, 6:34, 6:52 (long uphill), 6:37, 6:23, 6:09, and 5:49. Indiana’s upset of Kentucky helped pass the time on the day’s second run.

Sunday: 14 miles – 1:36:47, 6:55 pace. Fact: I haven’t run longer than 12 miles since the Chicago Marathon. So yeah, I was interested to see how I’d handle this “long” run. With that in mind, I set out pretty conservatively, purposely keeping the pace close to 7:00. Aerobically the run was easy as can be, but after about 10 miles I did notice a rather rapid increase is muscular fatigue. I finished without any problem, but I don’t know that I could have made it 20. If nothing else, this was a reminder how quickly my endurance dissipates.

Wrap-up: I once read an interview with Nick Willis where he said he believes one of the keys to success – such as PRs, wins, etc. – is the extra 10%. By that he was referring to core routines, weights, stretching, etc – the supplemental work in addition to running. In the last two years, I’ve slacked off on that aspect of my training. So this time around, to hold myself more accountable, I’ve developed 5 additional weekly goals:

1. Three core/hip strengthening routines
2. Two set of hill sprints/strides
3. One yoga session
4. One trip to Waterfall Glen
5. Over half the mileage outside

This week I hit 4 out of 5, missing on the yoga session. I’ll report each week whether I hit these marks.

Week: 100
YTD: 3,770

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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  Diego on Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:35 pm

Any chance that the Bear will sign Favre? I'd like to quell Tebow mania for a few weeks until they beat KC and gain a playoff spot. Wow, the Chicago media have been BBQing Barber.
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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  Dave-O on Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:50 pm

@Diego wrote:Any chance that the Bear will sign Favre? I'd like to quell Tebow mania for a few weeks until they beat KC and gain a playoff spot. Wow, the Chicago media have been BBQing Barber.

I would rather forfeit the remainder of the season - including my preseason bet that the Bears would win over 7.5 game (so need 1 more to cash) -than sign Brett Favre. Honestly.

I have pruposely avoided any and all sports radio/TV/articles except for tracking NBA roster moves. I can't take the Tebow talk. I just can't.

After last weekend's debacle, I'm 100% in Bulls mode. Picked out my 16 games for my partial season ticket package and bought a retro Jordan and black Rodman jerseys. Game on.
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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  mul21 on Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:08 pm

I think the only time I've been more pissed about any particular moment in a game than I was when Barber went out of bounds was when Alex Gonzales booted the double play ball in the NLCS in 2003. That was soooooo painful to watch.
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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  Dave-O on Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:13 pm

@mul21 wrote:I think the only time I've been more pissed about any particular moment in a game than I was when Barber went out of bounds was when Alex Gonzales booted the double play ball in the NLCS in 2003. That was soooooo painful to watch.

In recent memory, (1) Game 6 of 2003 NLCS, (2) Game 5 of 2011 Eastern Conference finals when the Bulls collapsed in the last 6:00, and (3) last Sunday against the Broncos is the most pissed off I've been after a sporting event. The fact that Teblow gets credit for Barber's boner-of-the-year-go-out-of-bounce, Prater's 59 yard FG, Barber's fumble, the Bears' blown coverage to get the Broncos into FG range and Prater's 51 yard FG only makes it worse.

Please Brady and Belicheck, curb-stomp these frauds without any mercy on Sunday. Please.
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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  Diego on Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:32 pm

@Dave-O wrote:
@Diego wrote:Any chance that the Bear will sign Favre? I'd like to quell Tebow mania for a few weeks until they beat KC and gain a playoff spot. Wow, the Chicago media have been BBQing Barber.

I would rather forfeit the remainder of the season - including my preseason bet that the Bears would win over 7.5 game (so need 1 more to cash) -than sign Brett Favre. Honestly.

I have pruposely avoided any and all sports radio/TV/articles except for tracking NBA roster moves. I can't take the Tebow talk. I just can't.

After last weekend's debacle, I'm 100% in Bulls mode. Picked out my 16 games for my partial season ticket package and bought a retro Jordan and black Rodman jerseys. Game on.

Wow, trading in Da Bears for a bunch of thugs and gangstas! You must be converting to Libertarianism.No
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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  Dave P on Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:45 pm

Wishing you a great 2012 Dave!
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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  Diego on Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:04 pm

I'd be rooting for the Bulls now, too. Yikes!!

Sorry, but lots of Tat's(Jalen!??!) always remind me of thugs and gangstas(T & G).

What do you think about this as the possible Superbowl line?

NFC over the AFC in the Superbowl (-9)

O/U 44.5

Merry Christmas!!! Congrats on the new home!!
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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  Dave-O on Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:37 am

@Dave P wrote:Wishing you a great 2012 Dave!

Same to you, Dave!

@Diego wrote:

What do you think about this as the possible Superbowl line?

NFC over the AFC in the Superbowl (-9)

O/U 44.5


-9??? My book has it as NFC (-4.5) AFC. I would be all over getting more than a TD on the AFC side.
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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  Dave-O on Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:37 am

Training Week 2: December 12 – 18

Monday: 6 miles – 44:12, 7:22 pace. 8 miles – 57:30, 7:13 pace. While there was nothing special about last week’s 100 miles, it served to get a structure in place that can easily built upon. I’m looking to add a few miles this week.

Tuesday: 11 miles – 1:09:15, 6:18 pace. 5 miles – 36:11, 7:14 pace. I’m still tweaking how I’m going to handle the early Wednesday morning long run, so this week I moved my fartlek run up to lunchtime. I figure my body will appreciate the extra 8 hours of recovery. The run itself went well, other than making a complete mess of my office gym. I’m talking puddles of sweat on the ground.

Wednesday: 12 miles – 1:24:11, 7:01 pace. 5 miles – 7:48 pace. When I decided to knock out my mid-week long runs in the morning, I don’t think I fully understood what I was signing up for….because I certainly didn’t envision starting the run in the dark in pouring rain. By the time it was light enough to get on the Waterfall Glen trail it was sloppy as all hell. Some of the uphill portions were like running on a wet beach. This one was definitely a character builder. And yet, it was much more enjoyable than sitting in traffic for 2 hours to drive 30 miles back into the city. Why do people forget how to drive in the rain?

Thursday: 5 miles – 37:05, 7:25 pace. 8 miles – 57:55, 7:14 pace. I’ll take this opportunity to state how ridiculously awesome the weather has been this December (other than yesterday). I’ve been running in shorts almost every day. 40 degrees? Perfect. And yes, I’m sure I just jinxed it and next week will be miserable.

Friday: 5 miles – 37:45, 7:33 pace. 8 miles – 56:34, 7:04 pace. Britt and I spent the day in Wisconsin closing on our new condo on Lake Delavan. Merry Christmas! I was hoping to get out for a run around the lake – I’ve been told its 12 miles – but the sellers left the place a lot messier than anticipated. I spent an hour and a half on the refrigerator alone! But the place is looking good now, and I’m excited to explore new running routes all summer long. Can we start a 365 Dave-O Pontoon Boat fund?

Saturday: 12 miles – 1:20:08, with 4 mile tempo 5 miles – untimed. Today’s tempo was impromptu. I felt good during the first 4 miles so I decided to hammer a little for 20 minutes. My splits were 5:38, 5:36, 5:32 and 5:25. Considering I haven’t run a true tempo in over 2 months, I was pleased with the results. I wasn’t pleased to run 5 more miles about 3 hours later, but that’s what I get for wasting my morning doing nothing.

Sunday: 16 miles – 1:50:45, 6:55 pace. Last night was a good friend’s 30th birthday celebration, meaning I was in no position to bang out a long run early in the morning. My options were either missing the Bears game or running on the treadmill so I could watch as I ran. I opted for the later. I would have been better off skipping the game, and the well-being of the treadmill’s central console would have been as well. What a disaster. Bring on the Bulls. On the bright side, the run felt effortless.

Extras:

1. Three core/hip strengthening routines - check
2. Two set of hill sprints/strides - check
3. One yoga session – failure, again. Ugh, I don’t know where this is fitting in.
4. One trip to Waterfall Glen - check
5. Over half the mileage outside – failure, thanks to the Bears

Week: 106
YTD: 3,876

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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  Diego on Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:05 pm

Nice week, Dave-O.

Me first on the Pontoon boat list. I have to keep up with our neighbors who have a float plane that they use all summer.
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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  Michele "1L" Keane on Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:11 pm

No, I'm first on the pontoon boat list - actually, I need a ski boat after all, I already have a house on one lake without a boat and now another really big lake without a boat. And I'm older - so you can inherit.

Nice week, Dave-O. You do get used to the early morning thing and then it is a hard habit to break.
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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  Dave-O on Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:22 pm

Training Week 3: December 19 – 25

Monday: 5 miles – 37:23, 7:29 pace. 9 miles – 1:02:33, 6:57 pace. Goal for week 3 – 110 miles. I know it’s going to be tough with the holidays upon us, not to mention a way-too-busy work schedule, but I’ll make the sacrifices to get the miles in.

Tuesday: 12 miles – 1:15:24, 6:17 pace. 5 miles – untimed. Same routine as last week: At lunch I made a mess of the office gym with a 12 mile fartlek run, and after work I jogged 5 untimed miles home. My legs are getting my used to logging the primary run for the day first and the secondary run as a shake-out. If nothing else, I feel far more refreshed by the time I head to bed.

Wednesday: 5 miles – 37:21, 7:28 pace. 13 miles – 1:28:13, 6:47 pace. Work prevented me from a trip to Waterfall Glen any morning this week, and until a trial scheduled to start on January 11th is over, that may be a recurring reality. So I was relegated to my tried-and-tested long run route along the lakefront. Thankfully the wind was calm tonight, making the run easier than normal in the winter months. I wouldn’t say I knocked this one out easily, but I held it together better than I have at Waterfall Glen.

Thursday: 5 miles – 37:38, 7:32 pace. 8 miles – 58:32, 7:19 pace.

Friday: 11 miles – 1:06:26, with 3 x 2 miles. 5 miles – untimed. On Sunday, January 8, there’s a free cross-country race in Chicago called the Daniel Burnham Open. Its 4k – four 1k loops going up and down a sledding hill each loop. What better way to prep for the 12k cross-country race in February? While I don’t expect to be in great shape by the 8th, I definitely had the DBO in mind when I decided on 3 x 2 miles tonight. I was very pleased with the results: 11:08 (5:35, 5:33), 10:48 (5:26, 5:22), and 10:27 (5:16, 5:11). The last set was border on the edge of “too hard for a workout” but with such little quality in this week, I could afford it.

Saturday: 5 miles – 37:35, 7:32 pace. 9 miles – 1:04:12, 7:08 pace. Is a three-hour break between easy runs ideal? Absolutely not. But sometimes, especially during the holidays, you need to fit in your runs wherever you can.

Sunday: 16 miles – 1:51:32, 6:58 pace. I have the worst luck with point-to-point courses. My last two Boston Marathons were into a headwind, and this morning, a nasty consistent wind from the west ruined a perfectly planned Chicago to Elmhurst run. See, I wanted to sleep in on Christmas morning, and Britt and I planned to be at her parents’ house by Noon. I hopped on mapmyrun.com and realized that heading 16 miles straight due west on North Avenue would work perfectly, where Britt could hop of the expressway and pick me up. And it did work perfectly, except for the damn wind. My effort level was at least 15-20 seconds harder than the pace reflects; in all, a solid long run. The only negative is that the route was two miles shorter than I intended, costing me 110 miles for the week.

1. Three core/hip strengthening routines - check
2. Two set of hill sprints/strides - check
3. One yoga session – Um, how about I start tracking this in 2012?
4. One trip to Waterfall Glen – failure, but I blame it on the holidays
5. Over half the mileage outside – check

Week: 108
YTD: 3,984
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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  Peg Coover on Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:09 am

Dave, two miles short but 20 seconds per mile more effort should even out!! Wind is a four letter word, in my opinion! If I had to run that far into it, I would probably bail out!

I had to smile at your comment about half the miles were outside! Only 4 of my runs in this whole year were inside--twice in the halls at school and twice at the track at the Y! Several years ago I got shin splints after running on a treadmill, so I have a fear of them now!

You are a running machine!!!
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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  Ben Z on Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:08 pm

Good luck in 2012 Dave.
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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  Dave-O on Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:16 pm

@Peg Coover wrote:Dave, two miles short but 20 seconds per mile more effort should even out!! Wind is a four letter word, in my opinion! If I had to run that far into it, I would probably bail out!

I had to smile at your comment about half the miles were outside! Only 4 of my runs in this whole year were inside--twice in the halls at school and twice at the track at the Y! Several years ago I got shin splints after running on a treadmill, so I have a fear of them now!

You are a running machine!!!

Trust me, I wanted to bail out! But with Britt meeting me at a pre-determined location, I had no choice. Sometimes having no way to cut a run short is a good thing...

Sometimes I enjoy the treadmill; I can just turn my mind off and watch a game or listen to music. For me, easy runs pass by more quickly on the treadmill, and the convenience factor with my work gym is tough to beat.

@Ben Z wrote:Good luck in 2012 Dave.

Thanks Ben. Same to you!
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Re: Buck-O-Nine

Post  JohnP on Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:19 pm

I would give up on the yoga, it's clearly not happening. The value for the time investment is shaky anyway.
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Re: Buck-O-Nine

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